Monday, January 30, 2006

The Sickness Of Moral Relativism

Yes, I know that title sounds like one of Dumbjon or Pastorius' lengthy diatribes which often leave me a little...lost. I'll try not to let it be. I also happen to know that Pastorius is kind of a fan of and also voted for the particular nutball who inspired me to write this post, so he might not be all that keen on me slagging off this particular individual as part of it, but we'll see.

The gentleman in question is Bill Clinton, you see, who is currently in Qatar at an 'economic conference' - why an ex-pres would be at such a gathering unless it is to receive yet more oil-stained money is beyond me (ah, answered my own question there didnt I). He has made a quite astonishing statement about the famous cartoon jihad whilst there, comparing said cartoons to anti-semitism! As if these compare to these. Or this piece of homegrown UK filth for that matter.

This is that most modern of sins, moral relativism. Moral relativism, to me, is the idea that all forms of offense, insult or action are comparable. All sins, if you like, are equal. Those who follow moral relativism (almost exclusively to be found on the Left) are those that claim, for example, that the Americans targeting a terrorist enclave in Pakistan and killing five top Al-Qaeda members (including its chief bombmaker) but also killing a handful of civilians who were sheltering said terrorists at the same time is the same as Al-Qaeda sawing off the heads of helpless American contractors. That interning terrorists in Guantanamo Bay is comparable to the Nazis placing people in extermination camps. Where the UN is creating a special commission to 'investigate' Denmark and Norway for Islamophobia in publishing a dozen cartoons about Mohammed whilst in Darfur Muslims are murdering Christians and Animists literally by the hundreds on a daily basis and the UN is ignoring it. Indeed, that depicting Mohammed with a fizzing bomb on his head is comparable to depicting Jews killing children and baking cakes with their blood for Purim.

The most pernicious form of Moral Relativism is, of course, that perpetrated against Israel. This is the excuse that the 'Occupation' of land once owned by people who have spent sixty years trying to exterminate every Jew in the Middle East is somehow 'as bad as' the horrific society of the Palestinians and other Arabs, threaded with school textbooks teaching boys that all Jews are evil and murder small children and are subhumans (untermensch, you might say...), the intrinsic oppression of women even to the point where a woman who defends herself against rape is sentenced to death for doing so and where Moral Relativist organisations like the disgusting Amnesty International blame gang rapes and child abuse on Israel rather than on the people that actually commit those offences. Where a security fence which demonstrably prevents terrorism (as is evidenced by the enormous fall off in Israeli casualties since it was built and the enormous number of terrorists who have been caught and imprisoned before reaching their targets) is an 'apartheid wall' as if Israel is torturing and murdering blacks by the hundred just as the South Africans did. Where Israel's longterm possession of nuclear weapons is used as justification for allowing a nation which has threatened to wipe it off the map to possess them also.

The Hamas election victory has brought the Moral Relativists crawling out of the woodwork in droves. Sickening accusations that 'well Hamas are bad but the IDF have killed lots of Palestinians as well' have abounded, as the Moral Relativists spin like tops to try and excuse a people prepared to elect an organisation dedicated to the extermination of the people next door. Moral Relativism's sick code equates the IDF returning sniper fire and accidentally downing civilians who are deliberately sheltering the snipers with Israeli children having to go to school in armoured vehicles because they are routinely shot at from the other side of the 'apartheid wall'.

Moral Relativism IS a sickness, and one that we shall see more of in the coming months as the terror-apologists in our midst attempt to push us to carry on treating with the new Terrorist boss, even more open than the old one. Like the Political Correctness that it goes hand in hand with, it is also a curse of the decadent West. I have no idea what the solution is, but it is something we right-thinking individuals all need to guard against and counter at every turn.

18 Comments:

Blogger Alison said...

Absolutely terrific post DSD. So good I need to print it off and re read it.

9:43 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

Wrong diagnosis dude - this has nothing to do with moral relativism.

You mean moral equivalence. Which is something which is also engaged in by absolutists and 'the right'.

They just think it is somehow better when they do it :-)

3:56 PM  
Blogger p_pandar said...

"Relativistic positions often see moral values as applicable only within certain cultural boundaries or the context of individual preferences."

Sounds exactly right to me :p

9:43 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

"Relativistic positions often see moral values as applicable only within certain cultural boundaries or the context of individual preferences."

Sounds exactly right to me :p


a) "Often". Clue there.
b) that still doesn't imply moral equivalence
c) it's still true that absolutists and "the right" engage in daft moral equivalences of their own

But, it is always amusing when people argue for objective truth and can't get the simplest facts right :-)

10:43 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Frank,

I am an absolutist. I know whats right and what's wrong. And I'm bloody proud of it.

7:45 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

I am an absolutist. I know whats right and what's wrong. And I'm bloody proud of it.

Sounds great. I'm sure the 9/11 hijackers told themselves similar.

11:29 AM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

And there we have it in a nutshell. Because my opinion is different from yours, I am the same as the 9/11 hijackers. Whereas you will doubtless refuse to morally condemn anyone for anything until the moment they blow you up or hang you.

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

And there we have it in a nutshell. Because my opinion is different from yours, I am the same as the 9/11 hijackers.

Ah so you're another one of those who profess to know the absolute truth about morality, yet in fact shows very little regard for either truth or morality.

3:41 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

And where is it that I lied Frank? I ask as one who shows little regard for the truth, naturally.

Typical isnt it? The level of Liberal debate wouldnt even challenge my nine-year old, let alone an actual adult. Yah boo hiss Frank, you're a liar too!

8:08 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

Where to begin?

1) you are mistaken about what I said ("the same as the 9/11 hijackers")

2) you then go on to pull a reason for my supposedly saying the above out of your ass ("Because my opinion is different from yours").

3) what you previously represented as absolute truth you now represent as your "opinion"

4) Having been given a gentle hint (note the smiley in my first comment) that maybe moral relativism doesn't actually mean or imply what you think it does, you continue to peddle the same bullshit.

By the way your remarks about level of debate would be a lot more impressive if you weren't constantly trying to demonise all those who disagree, if you took a break from flailing at strawmen, if you actually understood the term 'moral relativism', and if you didn't contradict yourself the whole time.

But, do what you like.

9:58 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Frank,

Never claimed to know the absolute 'truth' about morality. I just know that I am set in my own mores (an absolutist), and in this day and age when we are faced with an enemy as implacable as Islam, we need to be as implacable in our resolve to stop it from destroying us. Playing games of trying to compare Israel's anti-terrorist forays with, for example 9/11 (seeing as you brought it up) is something we cannot afford to do.

Now others on this Blog who disagree with my stance on Israel have commendably actually tried using facts and figures etc to back up their arguments, and I have read and considered those arguments. All you can offer is to compare me to Islamic terrorism and tell me I'm talking bullshit.

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me where I lied...

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

DSD,

I did not say that you lied (although you have posted an impressive number of falsehoods). What I said was that you show little regard for the truth.

By that I mean that you show little interest in actually understanding what it is that moral relativists actually believe and instead prefer to treat your own misunderstanding of it as gospel and even read things that aren't written.

I on the other hand have a bit of insight into what moral relativists actually believe, being as I am one. You give a litany of arguments that moral relativists are supposed to subscribe to in your original post. I don't subscribe to any of them. Indeed I doubt that anyone does since you haven't actually quoted or attributed any of them. Certainly if anyone does believe them they are not here to defend themselves.

You talk about 'the' moral code of relativism, and the notion that relativism somehow says that all sins are equally bad - both of these are self-refuting statements, and if you bothered to find out what relativism actually meant you'd know why. To top it all off you insist that moral relativism is an illness. As far as I am aware the only illness I have is a nasty dose of the flu.

You insist that I've "compared" you to Islamic terrorism but I haven't. I've just noted that an absolute conviction and pride that one is correct is nothing admirable, of itself, and that every fundamentalist says the same. In my experience those who think that they know what is best are almost always dangerous, and almost always wrong.

You then waffle on about Islam and Israel as if it had the slightest bearing on what I wrote, which - again, still - is that moral relativism doesn't mean what you think it does.

If you want to make some point about moral equivalence then go right ahead, but if you want to pontificate about moral relativism then shouldn't you actually understand it first?

2:25 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Dear Frank,

On reflection, I give you this one. I wasnt aware that there were people who actually described themselves as 'Moral Relativists' any more than they would describe themselves as 'Moral Equivalancers', and if you feel I have stolen your brand then so be it. I and others have simply been wryly observing how you have chosen to fervently argue the semantics of the label I put on a type of behaviour I find sickening rather than refute the arguments I put forward against it. But I'm bored now.

See new post.

4:39 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

I wasnt aware that there were people who actually described themselves as 'Moral Relativists'

Amazing...you didn't think there was any such thing as a moral relativist, yet you wrote a whole post describing moral relativists as one of the major blights on the world.

And at the same time it completely escapes your notice that the people flying plane loads of people into famous landmarks, and beheading people, and committing suicide bombings, terrorism, and "Islamists" and everything else you rail against are all moral absolutists.

In-fucking-credible.

8:41 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Yes Frank - naturally because I think I know what's right and wrong and terrorists think they do too I am in your eyes just as bad, despite the fact that I haven't been

flying plane loads of people into famous landmarks, and beheading people, and committing suicide bombings, terrorism,

There you have it Frank. You did it to yourself, right there. Moral equivalence. Symmetry. Whatever you want to call it. Nailed you but GOOD didnt I?

9:47 PM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

naturally because I think I know what's right and wrong and terrorists think they do too I am in your eyes just as bad

BZZT!! Nice strawman. Perhaps one day someone will make that argument and then you'll have a point.

10:57 PM  
Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Frank, its not a strawman. Its YOUR OWN WORDS. There they are, right above mine. Read them. I appreciate this flu bout may have fevered your brain even more than usual, but really...

7:52 AM  
Anonymous Frank O'Dwyer said...

Frank, its not a strawman. Its YOUR OWN WORDS.

These are YOUR words, asshole:

"I am in your eyes just as bad"

8:28 AM  

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